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Stan Patton's avatar

Scenario 1 describes a person who wants to eat a car (perhaps some sort of craving) and does not want to eat a car (due to its unpleasantness and whatnot). The things that make them sad are reasons (per their stances) for them to abstain. The things about the car-eating that make others sad are reasons (per the others' stances) for them to abstain. Moral antirealism does not adjudicate what they ought to do or not do in this situation; "ought" in fact is relative to which stances we're bootstrapping as "owed." Anyone suggesting that moral antirealism simpliciter makes an evaluative call on the correct thing to do has assembled a strawman.

Same story with scenario 2. It's bad per some stances, good for others. Moral antirealism has nothing to say beyond this. Per some stances, it is a rational failing to continue to procrastinate. Per other stances, it is not a rational failing to continue to procrastinate.

Same story with scenario 3. They want it (perhaps some sort of craving), but they also don't want it (due to its joylessness and pain and whatnot). Moral antirealism does not assert, "When they do it, they are not being irrational." Moral antirealism says, "The propriety of what they do will be in part a function of stances that determine what propriety means."

Same story with scenario 4. There are different wants at play -- for a certain cookie, to avoid agony, etc. In no way does moral antirealism entail, "As long as they're informed about the relevant facts, they're not being irrational." Moral antirealism means "the number of moral propositions that are completely stance-independent is zero." All of these examples invoke all sorts of stances, either explicitly or implicitly.

Same story with scenario 5. On moral antirealism there are plenty of reasons to not do this. You mentioned a few of them: You leave behind a life of joy and fulfillment. Anyone can judge they're acting foolishly, where "foolishly" is in part a function of stances; moral antirealism does not mean "this is a judgment-free zone."

Same story with scenario 6. Moral antirealism neither condemns nor approves of this act. Moral antirealism just says that condemnation or approval of this act shall in part be a function of stances.

"This is all completely nuts!" Indeed. But that's because those "on antirealism, they're not being irrational" assertions are completely nuts. They imbue moral antirealism with normativity as if moral antirealism isn't just about stance-dependence, but is actively dictating stances and evaluative norms.

Under moral antirealism, things can be delicious, beautiful, horrifying, permitted, obligated, rational, irrational, goofy, foolish, wise, noble, heroic, evil, cowardly, reckless, careful, negligent, attendant, etc. Whether they are deemed so will always be, in part, a function of stances, that is, cares & concerns. Morality as independent of cares & concerns isn't true and never made any sense.

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K. Liam Smith's avatar

I’m also a moral realist, so I’m sympathetic to this conclusion. But I don’t think this is going to convince anyone to change their mind. The argument seems to boil down to “Because I say so.”

Take this example from the article: “A person is depressed and cuts themself. When they do it, they are fully informed about the long-term consequences. On anti-realism, they are not acting irrationally.”

Then we're told: “This is all completely nuts!”

But why is it nuts? Because you say so? If you believe that reducing suffering is a moral axiom, then sure that’s completely nuts. But if a moral anti-realist doesn’t subscribe to that axiom, then this won’t change their mind.

> Just as it appears to me that there’s a table in front of me, it appears to me that it’s wrong to torture babies. Just as I should think there’s a table absent a good reason to doubt it, I should think it’s wrong to torture babies.

Again, I agree with this conclusion. It’s bad to torture babies. But I don’t see how the argument here is anything other than “Because I say so.” If it appeared to Bentham that torturing babies is fine, then does that make it fine?

For a concrete example, torture (including torture of babies) was an important part of Comanche culture. The Bentham we know who grew up in Western culture says that sounds bad. But the Bentham who grew up Comanche might say the opposite. A critical theorist might say that moral values are socially constructed and the imposition of your values is inherently oppressive. The counter-argument from this pieces seems to be “It’s bad because I say so.”

Moral anti-realists who are also atheist (not all atheist are moral anti-realists) likely won’t be persuaded by this. In a theist perspective you can appeal to the doctrines of a deity. But without a deity, then you’re just saying, “Torturing babies is bad because I say so.”

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