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River's avatar

Your initial premise is absurd. Of course consciousness comes in degrees. You experience that every morning when you wake up. You go from fully unconscious to fully conscious by going through intermediate states with intermediate degrees of consciousness. If we had to place a precise time, down to the millisecond, on when you became conscious this morning, it would not be well defined. It would be, as you put it, vague.

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Daniel Greco's avatar

I agree with most of the reasoning in this post. However, I think you don't push it far enough, and if you did push it far enough, it would look more like a reductio of its starting point than a compelling inference.

In particular, I agree that if consciousness is robustly objective--if it can never be a vague or indeterminate matter whether something is conscious--then it's ubiquitous. I also agree that consciousness being robustly objective is inconsistent with lots of popular theories of consciousness (like HOT, global workspace, or theories that posit the necessity of specific high-level anatomical features like cortices, etc.)

But you don't say what you mean by "ubiquitous", and you seem focused on implications for shrimp/insect pain. I think the only sort of ubiquity that could get you the conclusion that it's never vague whether something is conscious looks more like panpsychism. Consciousness would have to be a fundamental feature of matter, sorta like mass or spin.

In that Peter Godfrey Smith story, you see proto-agency--e.g., chemotaxis--already in single celled organisms. Do you want to say they're conscious? If not, then you need to draw a line somewhere in the tree of life between them and insects. That's going to look kinda vague/arbitrary.

If you're happy to say amoebas are conscious, then we just push the question back. Despite being only one cell, they're still massively complex, containing something like 10^14 molecules. How many molecules do you need, in what kind of structures, do you need to become conscious for the first time? The only hope I see for escaping this--if you won't tolerate any vagueness--is saying that consciousness is there right from the start, with the simplest particles.

But now the problem is that you buy the robust objectivity of consciousness at the fundamental level at the price of sacrificing the robust objectivity of consciousness at the macroscopic level we're already familiar with.

Take a physical example like mass. We're happy with the idea that it's pretty robustly objective how much mass an electron has, how much mass a proton has, etc. What about a macroscopic object, like a car? Well, for lots of purposes we can think of car as a single object with a single mass--if you want to know how much energy (e.g., how many gallons of gas, burned in an engine with such-and-such efficiency) it will take to move the whole car a given distance, thinking of the car as a single object with a single mass is convenient. On the other hand, if you want to know what will happen if another car sideswipes the mirror, it's better to think of the mirror as a distinct object with its own (much smaller) mass, to make sense of why the mirror will be snapped off but the rest of the car won't be moved. There's not really a robustly objective fact about how to group particles together into macroscopic objects--that's a matter of convenience. We get the robust objectivity of mass facts at the fundamental level, but not the robust objectivity of mass facts at the macroscopic level. And in the case of mass, it's pretty straightforward how you get from particle-mass-facts to macro-object-mass-facts--it's just addition; the squishiness comes in how you group particles together into macro-objects. In the case of consciousness, nobody has any idea how you'd get from particle-consciousness to organism-consciousness, because nobody has any idea what particle-consciousness-facts could be.

It seems to me pretty plausible that if you want the robust objectivity of consciousness facts, the best you could get would be the robust objectivity of facts about the consciousness of something like quarks, which would probably *not* get you the robust objectivity of facts about the consciousness of insects, shrimp, or humans.

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