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James Reilly's avatar

Why are Swinburne's arguments for expecting an incarnate God "utterly ludicrous"? The idea that it would be fitting for God to suffer alongside his creatures (given that he allows us to suffer for a good purpose) doesn't strike me as crazy. More broadly, the idea of God living a life of suffering seems to be quite philosophically fruitful (see e.g. the use to which Marilyn Adams put it). And if God is going to become incarnate to live a life of suffering, first-century Palestine seems like a pretty good place to do it (consider e.g. the strongly monotheistic Jewish culture being brutally oppressed by the Roman government, thus affording lots of opportunities for courageous opposition).

I also think (following e.g. Herbert McCabe) that the Incarnation is plausibly necessary in order for God to love us as equals, and so it's almost certain that a morally perfect God would become incarnate. But that relies on more controversial assumptions.

Also, it isn't clear why the fact that Jesus' life was only described in later (sometimes contradictory) books is relevant. The alleged unreliability of the gospels only matters insofar as it leads one to doubt the relevant historical facts (i.e. the basics of Christ's ministry and teaching, his crucifixion, the tomb, and the appearances). Once we've *agreed* on those facts (which, as you note, most historians do), Gospel reliability ceases to matter with respect to the resurrection argument.

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The Futurist Right's avatar

I mostly agree, but this is the type of article that won't and shouldn't convince anyone who isn't already basically convinced. Your strongest argument, the one about bible verses would be strong if you bothered to quote a single one of them in context to prove your point and not just replaced that critical part with a random dig.

For example: Matthew writes that baby Jesus' escape and then return from Egypt satisfied the prophecy in Hosea:

"And was there (Egypt) until the death of Herod: that it might be fulfilled which was spoken of the Lord by the prophet, saying, Out of Egypt have I called my son. (Matthew 2:15)

The verse cited reads:

"When Israel was a child, then I loved him, and called my son out of Egypt. As they called them, so they went from them: they sacrificed unto Baalim, and burned incense to graven images." (Hosea 1:11).

Since Jesus is alleged to have never sinned, and since sacrifice to Baalim is on the peak of biblical sins, this cannot be a prophecy of Jesus.

- That's what an actual argument as opposed to mere sneering looks like. You can do the sneering after you win an argument (sure we all have the right to have a little fun), but not before.

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