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Mon0's avatar
Jan 7Edited

As a statistician, one of my main concerns with the Self-Indication Assumption (SIA) is that it treats ‘I exist’ as if it were a typical piece of evidence for updating our hypotheses, whereas from my own vantage point, my existence is guaranteed (probability 1). Hence, we do not truly have an independent observation. Let me try to be more clear:

Given universe A with billions of people and universe B with a gazillion of people the fact that "I exist" is not independent of the worlds being considered. The existence of observers is tied to the structure of each possible world, making "I exist" a given rather than an independent piece of evidence.

Again even more clear (hopefully):

Under SIA, we assign higher probability to World B because it has more observers, making our existence seem more likely in that world. However:

The observation that "I exist" isn't a random variable sampled from a distribution over observers. Instead, it is a given that applies equally in either world, conditional on the subject being able to make observations.

In other words it seems to me that the probability of "I exist" is 1 in both worlds, conditional on our own capacity to reason, so it cannot provide additional evidence to differentiate between them.

This undermines the usual machinery of Bayesian inference, which presumes we have evidence that can vary depending on which hypothesis is true. Here, the evidence ‘I exist’ does not really vary from my standpoint: it’s guaranteed if I’m around to observe it. Consequently, it seems like it does not provide additional, independent information to discriminate between Universe A and Universe B.

For this objection stated even more clearly see: https://mon0.substack.com/p/benthams-bulldog-ruins-my-weekend

Love your stuff btw!

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Mark's avatar
Jan 7Edited

>Thus, if naturalism is true, then if there are L people total, there are L people who are deceived, just as there are L people who aren’t deceived. Your credence in you being deceived should thus be undefined.

This doesn't follow. I'm not sure Bayesians even allow undefined probabilities, at least in the case of an ideal reasoner and non-super-mathematically-pathological propositions like "I am not being deceived" (as opposed to "this uniformly distributed random variable on the interval [0,1] belongs to this specific Vitali set I constructed via the Axiom of Choice"). But regardless of that technicality, just because the world is such that you can't meaningfully apply the principle of indifference or whatever anthropic principle to resolve a certain question, it doesn't automatically follow that you need to be skeptical in any sense about that question. Maybe you can fall back to other epistemic principles in cases like these, e.g., phenomenal conservatism.

It's also not obvious why the atheist can't get around all this by simply proposing some non-theistic axiological competitor that posits the same collection of worlds being created as you think God would create - i.e., the overall metaphysics of world creation is "just" that the best collection of worlds gets created full-stop, with no intermediary agent who's responsible for this. And so if you think that only induction-friendly hypotheses are in the running, and you think theism is induction-friendly due to the worlds that it would generate, this one should also be induction-friendly because it generates the same ones.

Finally, it's extraordinarily mysterious *how* God chooses which set of net-positive anti-inductive worlds he actualizes. Why would he choose one and not the other? Is it random? But we have no theory of probability that's going to work well to model this given the cardinalities involved, so it's "random" in the haziest possible sense (not to mention how weird it is to suggest an omniscient agent choosing something randomly, as if he doesn't know the outcome in advance, and as if there's some Metaphysical Random Number Generator/"MNRG" that is doing stuff outside of any universe and independently of his will and as if the same mystery doesn't adhere to the MNRG's process). In fact, if almost all worlds are inductive, shouldn't we have essentially 100% credence that the next induction I try to apply will succeed, instead of something appropriately lower like 99%? You might reply that we should go by the proportion of observer-moments within each universe where induction succeeds rather than across universes, but why? Putting aside that this sounds more like an SSA approach than SIA, if it's because the proportions are undefined like what you write about the atheistic multiverse hypothesis above, then you agree with my earlier point there - in cases where we can't reason this way because the math doesn't work out, we can just fall back to other principles. And indeed, even ignoring this weirdness, I should still be 100% certain that I'm not in an anti-inductive universe in general, which most would reject.

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