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Both Sides Brigade's avatar

I have a specific issue with this claim: "This is already, even putting aside the atonement, a pretty surprising coincidence. If the greatest good really comes from a kind of deep union with God, it’s surprising that dwellers in first-century Roman Palestine would come up with the ideal afterlife state. It would be like if the Bible discussed the psychophysical harmony argument at length; it’s so specific that it’s hard to believe they’d think of it by chance."

There shouldn't be anything surprising about communities developing the belief that some sort of union with God would be the greatest possible good. If God is the greatest possible being, then that conclusion follows almost trivially (and that's why it shows up across human cultures in all sorts of religious contexts, from Gnosticism to Hinduism). No one thinks that any of these groups were just guessing about what the greatest good would be, and that they just happened to be right - but once you accept that their conclusion is the straightforward consequence of their general theistic views, then it's not even remotely weird that it would be something that theism predicts, and it doesn't provide any reason to believe the prediction is *true.* That's like someone who believes in the world's most delicious hot dog saying, "Well, if the world's most delicious hot dog does exist, it's a surprising coincidence that people think it's the best hot dog to eat; it's hard to believe they would think the best possible hot dog to eat was the world's most delicious one by chance." No it isn't! It's just a natural consequence of believing that such a thing exists.

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Anlam Kuyusu's avatar

<<There existing, in the modern day, surprisingly well-attested Christian miracles, like Our Lady of Zeitoun>>

There is no response to this. In the previous post, you were claiming that some guy grew a limb in 1640, now I guess you found some nonsense in 1968 to make it sound more realistic. (It might be actually time to unsubscribe.) All claims of supernatural events have other explanations.

Alright, I'll take one final stab.

If there are miracles happening in random places at random times, that makes the problem of evil even more pressing. Why doesn't god just drop a banner from the sky that says "stop with the factory farming and all the evil sh*t or else..."? Where are these miracles when innocent babies die of hunger?

That the greatest undergraduate student of philosophy in the world endorses such blatant nonsense like miracles shows the ineffectiveness of philosophy. I'm sad.

I have spent some time scrutinizing your posts. I think you believe in a god for two primary psychological reasons: 1/ you are bothered by certain skeptical arguments and you just want to claim "god made it that way" in response (which was actually Descartes's own response but the dude lived 500 years ago) 2/ you desperately want to believe you'll spend an eternity with your loved ones. I'm sorry man - I recommend the Hume route (backgammon) instead:

<<Most fortunately it happens, that since Reason is incapable of dispelling these clouds, Nature herself suffices to that purpose, and cures me of this philosophical melancholy and delirium, either by relaxing this bent of mind, or by some avocation, and lively impression of my senses, which obliterate all these chimeras. I dine, I play a game of backgammon, I converse, and am merry with my friends. And when, after three or four hours' amusement, I would return to these speculations, they appear so cold, and strained, and ridiculous, that I cannot find in my heart to enter into them any farther.>>

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