This is a beautiful post. Very grateful that I found your blog. I’ve been vegetarian almost all my life and went vegan years ago, and it’s really encouraging to see some rising stars who recognize clearly the evil we inflict on animals.
I wish these types of posts included more information about the steps that someone can take to become vegan -- and how it's much easier to go vegan than you might initially think. A good website is https://www.howdoigovegan.com/ maintained by animal-rights lawyer and philosopher Gary Francione.
BUT, we shouldn't discount the positive utility that animals experience. In traditional farming -- the kind you see all over the countryside if you go for a drive, especially around Europe, but even in the US -- it seems obvious to me that those animals get more positive utility than negative, even if they're in pain for a bit due to branding (not the worst torture in the world) and execution.
So it's more complicated than just "eating animals is wrong." Eating well-raised animals is actually a positive GOOD. Because they would never have experienced life if not for you eating them, and funding their lives.
But I fully agree about factory farms, and we should have significant welfare regulations on them, even though it would likely triple or quadruple the price of meat.
> As Dawkins has suggested, because these creatures can’t understand, perhaps they evolved to suffer more, for that was needed as a motivator.
"Suffering more" the way I understand it means that pain dominates your metacognitive and attentional resources more than usual. It's not clear to me at all what that would mean for e.g. shrimp that presumably don't have such cognitive abilities. It's like saying a radio has to "communicate more" because it has fewer transistors than your smart phone - what?
I want to remind that sentience attribution is far from “certain” in any case, and neuro science informs but can never decide. The farther you from your certain consciousness, the more uncertain.
Regarding the arthropods here is the case against their consciousness:
This is a beautiful post. Very grateful that I found your blog. I’ve been vegetarian almost all my life and went vegan years ago, and it’s really encouraging to see some rising stars who recognize clearly the evil we inflict on animals.
Thank you!
I wish these types of posts included more information about the steps that someone can take to become vegan -- and how it's much easier to go vegan than you might initially think. A good website is https://www.howdoigovegan.com/ maintained by animal-rights lawyer and philosopher Gary Francione.
This is very poetic and important.
BUT, we shouldn't discount the positive utility that animals experience. In traditional farming -- the kind you see all over the countryside if you go for a drive, especially around Europe, but even in the US -- it seems obvious to me that those animals get more positive utility than negative, even if they're in pain for a bit due to branding (not the worst torture in the world) and execution.
So it's more complicated than just "eating animals is wrong." Eating well-raised animals is actually a positive GOOD. Because they would never have experienced life if not for you eating them, and funding their lives.
But I fully agree about factory farms, and we should have significant welfare regulations on them, even though it would likely triple or quadruple the price of meat.
I disagree for reasons I've given here https://benthams.substack.com/p/against-eating-happy-animals?utm_source=publication-search
Extremely poignant piece. I know analytic philosophers have it out for emotive writing, but this was brilliantly written.
"I wonder how many turns of the blade it takes to kill them. I hope it’s not too many."
If I can ask, was this inspired by CosmicSkeptic's speech from a few years ago?
I listened to that speech, and I assume it was in my subconscience, but I didn't have it explicitly in mind.
My first thought as well. I've rewatched Alex's videos so often the words are all familiar.
Yeah, Alex was my introduction to philosophy. In some ways BB’s work is pretty reminiscent of him!
Magnificently written. I just donated to Legal Impact for Chickens because of you ❤️
Thank you!
You’re welcome 💗
Beautiful. And to use Don Maclean's lyrics like that, so haunting. Now I won't be able to read any other meaning into that song.
Thanks!
Cool. Now do one for the experience of a fetus being aborted.
> As Dawkins has suggested, because these creatures can’t understand, perhaps they evolved to suffer more, for that was needed as a motivator.
"Suffering more" the way I understand it means that pain dominates your metacognitive and attentional resources more than usual. It's not clear to me at all what that would mean for e.g. shrimp that presumably don't have such cognitive abilities. It's like saying a radio has to "communicate more" because it has fewer transistors than your smart phone - what?
What is your strongest argument against the Causal Inefficacy Objection?
And what do you make of Chappell's "Confessions of a Cheeseburger Ethicist" (https://www.goodthoughts.blog/p/confessions-of-a-cheeseburger-ethicist) I know you've responded to it, but reading his and others' responses to it, what do you think, one year on?
I wrote a long response to the inefficacy objection https://benthams.substack.com/p/the-causal-inefficacy-objection-is?utm_source=publication-search
Considering that babies are generally less likely to be sentient than adults it seems to be a good thing that we are mostly eating them
I want to remind that sentience attribution is far from “certain” in any case, and neuro science informs but can never decide. The farther you from your certain consciousness, the more uncertain.
Regarding the arthropods here is the case against their consciousness:
https://forum.effectivealtruism.org/posts/3nLDxEhJwqBEtgwJc/arthropod-non-sentience