The secret is that most people on both sides of every argument are usually illiterate in every way possible, and only ever making good arguments by accident because they heard them from wherever they get their news.
The tetanus vaccine is good, although not for the reasons most pro-vaxxers say. The thing people call a "tetanus shot" is really a combination vaccine that also vaccinates against diphtheria (and pertussis (whooping cough) in under-30s), called Td or Tdap.
Even if it's not worth it to get vaccinated againt tetanus, there is a much stronger case for getting vaccinated against diphtheria (it is contagious, and causes more deaths).
Yes, this is what I came here to say. If it's a stand-alone tetanus shot, sure, maybe. But if it's tdap, you're also protecting against dipteheria and whooping cough (pertussis). They're both contagious and pertussis kills babies.
My most viral tweet contained a factual error. But it was such a good dunk that nearly 70,000 were either revealed themselves to be as stupid as me, or it just didn't matter.
This assumes all deaths are exactly equal, when actually some are very much worse than others (and even if that were not objectively true, we would still be allowed personal preferences.) There's some quite alarming pics on the internet of what tetanus looks like. And, as others have said, who ever drove to a clinic for a stand alone tetanus shot?
I mean, there are also very alarming pics of the aftermath of car crashes on the internet. Plus the point about driving can be extended to say that if you (like most Americans) regularly drive >30 minutes a day, then getting or not getting a Tetanus vaccine has so little bearing on your risk of death that it’s probably not worth thinking about.
As I said we are allowed to have phobias. And there's occupations where the tetanus risk is seriously increased (farming or in my case messing around with horses).
And I can't get back to the article we are discussing, either from a link here or via search (how useless is substack) but I think the claim about rarity of tetanus is about rarity of tetanus in a vaccinated society which is bonkers in a conversation about the usefulness of vaccines. I have never had a brake failure in a car so what is the use of brakes?
As this article addresses, Tetanus is not contagious so it is actually really easy to account for the effect of vaccines. You can just take the yearly tetanus deaths and divide by the number of unboosted adults. It doesn’t change the conclusion that your risk of death from driving is probably at least 100x higher than your risk of death from tetanus. In fact, the original article is by a professor living in the DC area who to my knowledge does not mess around with horses much so he’s probably at a lower risk than average.
If I were to steelman the critics (from my empirically ignorant perspective), maybe Tetanus without the vaccine really sucks even when it doesn't kill you.
Who drives to the doctor specifically for a tetanus shot? It's a matter of course when your there for some other reason. Without vacc there would be about 90 cases a year but not deaths because we have ways to save people from dying when they get it. You still don't want it. Many of us get a lot of utility out of minimizing some risks if we can.
I read a bunch of the tweet responses and a lot of them seemed concerned about people respecting doctors less, and some seemed to say that if caplan was sensible then he would give out signals of respect first instead of just writing his tweet.
I remember someone saying that his tweet WILL be taken by someone as a general advice to not take vacciness.
Basically hardly anyone is actually good at critical thinking; most people decide which side to take in an argument based on vibes and existing biases. And that includes both sides of almost any debate.
Actually both of the criticicisms are better than I'd expect (although I'd prefer to see them explained in a neutral way rather than snide analogies). Neither is actually correct, but they both might be under different circumstances.
I think you possibly focus on the wrong thing in dismissing the second criticism (the analogy to Polio). The key problem there is the sleight of hand in comparing current Polio death rates to historical Polio vaccination campaigns. Polio was once a big problem in the US; it no longer is. This doesn't apply to Brian; he's comparing current Tetanus death rates to a current decision regarding a Tetanus vaccine. Deciding not to get a Polio vaccine is also a good decision for an American in 2024.
"19,000 people found this funny and clever enough to like the Tweet! Is there no justice? Once again, the disanalogy is that the vast majority who fall out of planes without a parachute (all of them?) die. In contrast, the vast majority of people who are unboosted do not die! This isn’t hard!"
But the odds of you actually needing to fall out of a plane in the first place would be extremely low, no?
It's not like your good to go if you don't die from it.
Symptoms of tetanus may not begin to appear until a week after the injury, so as a rule of thumb, try to get the tetanus booster shot within 48 hours of the injury. If tetanus is left untreated, your body could face long-term complications such as airway obstruction, heart failure, muscle damage, and/or brain damage.Apr 20, 2023
The secret is that most people on both sides of every argument are usually illiterate in every way possible, and only ever making good arguments by accident because they heard them from wherever they get their news.
The tetanus vaccine is good, although not for the reasons most pro-vaxxers say. The thing people call a "tetanus shot" is really a combination vaccine that also vaccinates against diphtheria (and pertussis (whooping cough) in under-30s), called Td or Tdap.
Even if it's not worth it to get vaccinated againt tetanus, there is a much stronger case for getting vaccinated against diphtheria (it is contagious, and causes more deaths).
Yes, this is what I came here to say. If it's a stand-alone tetanus shot, sure, maybe. But if it's tdap, you're also protecting against dipteheria and whooping cough (pertussis). They're both contagious and pertussis kills babies.
My most viral tweet contained a factual error. But it was such a good dunk that nearly 70,000 were either revealed themselves to be as stupid as me, or it just didn't matter.
This assumes all deaths are exactly equal, when actually some are very much worse than others (and even if that were not objectively true, we would still be allowed personal preferences.) There's some quite alarming pics on the internet of what tetanus looks like. And, as others have said, who ever drove to a clinic for a stand alone tetanus shot?
I mean, there are also very alarming pics of the aftermath of car crashes on the internet. Plus the point about driving can be extended to say that if you (like most Americans) regularly drive >30 minutes a day, then getting or not getting a Tetanus vaccine has so little bearing on your risk of death that it’s probably not worth thinking about.
As I said we are allowed to have phobias. And there's occupations where the tetanus risk is seriously increased (farming or in my case messing around with horses).
And I can't get back to the article we are discussing, either from a link here or via search (how useless is substack) but I think the claim about rarity of tetanus is about rarity of tetanus in a vaccinated society which is bonkers in a conversation about the usefulness of vaccines. I have never had a brake failure in a car so what is the use of brakes?
As this article addresses, Tetanus is not contagious so it is actually really easy to account for the effect of vaccines. You can just take the yearly tetanus deaths and divide by the number of unboosted adults. It doesn’t change the conclusion that your risk of death from driving is probably at least 100x higher than your risk of death from tetanus. In fact, the original article is by a professor living in the DC area who to my knowledge does not mess around with horses much so he’s probably at a lower risk than average.
If I were to steelman the critics (from my empirically ignorant perspective), maybe Tetanus without the vaccine really sucks even when it doesn't kill you.
Who drives to the doctor specifically for a tetanus shot? It's a matter of course when your there for some other reason. Without vacc there would be about 90 cases a year but not deaths because we have ways to save people from dying when they get it. You still don't want it. Many of us get a lot of utility out of minimizing some risks if we can.
You sir are a scholar and a gentleman.
I read a bunch of the tweet responses and a lot of them seemed concerned about people respecting doctors less, and some seemed to say that if caplan was sensible then he would give out signals of respect first instead of just writing his tweet.
I remember someone saying that his tweet WILL be taken by someone as a general advice to not take vacciness.
Basically hardly anyone is actually good at critical thinking; most people decide which side to take in an argument based on vibes and existing biases. And that includes both sides of almost any debate.
Actually both of the criticicisms are better than I'd expect (although I'd prefer to see them explained in a neutral way rather than snide analogies). Neither is actually correct, but they both might be under different circumstances.
I think you possibly focus on the wrong thing in dismissing the second criticism (the analogy to Polio). The key problem there is the sleight of hand in comparing current Polio death rates to historical Polio vaccination campaigns. Polio was once a big problem in the US; it no longer is. This doesn't apply to Brian; he's comparing current Tetanus death rates to a current decision regarding a Tetanus vaccine. Deciding not to get a Polio vaccine is also a good decision for an American in 2024.
There’s no good reason for the young and healthy to get Covid shots. Or influenza shots for that matter.
"19,000 people found this funny and clever enough to like the Tweet! Is there no justice? Once again, the disanalogy is that the vast majority who fall out of planes without a parachute (all of them?) die. In contrast, the vast majority of people who are unboosted do not die! This isn’t hard!"
But the odds of you actually needing to fall out of a plane in the first place would be extremely low, no?
It's not like your good to go if you don't die from it.
Symptoms of tetanus may not begin to appear until a week after the injury, so as a rule of thumb, try to get the tetanus booster shot within 48 hours of the injury. If tetanus is left untreated, your body could face long-term complications such as airway obstruction, heart failure, muscle damage, and/or brain damage.Apr 20, 2023