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John Smith's avatar

I think this is a strong contender for my favorite thing I've read here. This seems so incredibly obvious in hindsight that I'm almost embarrassed I wasn't able to put the idea into words myself.

Also an extremely motivating post in terms of encouraging people to donate.

Nina's avatar

I think this is a fundamentally misguided way of thinking about human morality though it is historically dominant. For me a good human being does not behave as an alien angel but as a fundamentally human person who shows human virtues.

Most humans don’t think it’s wrong to kill animals for their meat but do think it’s wrong to torture them. However many have a hazy belief that if it was really unnecessary torture the government wouldn’t allow it (and there are governments with laws trying to make treatment humane) and believe when companies claim humane treatment (surely if it was lying it wouldn’t be allowed?) Additionally people look at the popularity of veganism and realize their personal sacrifice will not move the needle in any way and decline to make a long term constant sacrifice for a non measurable benefit, support for a movement that doesn’t seem able to win for generations if ever.

Similarly, most people don’t think that a small monetary donation will meaningfully change anything for anyone abroad and that’s a sensible position. It might save a life from X just for that life to then end one month later from Y. We have no deep knowledge of the circumstances of these people in deep poverty far away and so no way to know the effectiveness or long term outcomes. Proximity matters for morality. Sacrifice for no measurable convincing benefit.

The electric shocks scenario (and Rawanda genocide) is much more interesting to me. Though I’m more generous in interpreting the distress people exhibit as real and a sign of a moral struggle that’s meaningful.

Given a room of such people and one person who stops the experiment… would others stop as well? Lots of interesting side questions. People are very social animals and it’s hard for many people to deviate from the norm, this is true. Sometimes this means people will do evil things to each other. But given debate and freedom to set standards not to do evil to others… many people will do that!

I need to get back to work on my own essays on these topics.

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