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307th's avatar

I see qualitative hedonism as recoiling from the implications of true utilitarianism. If you don't carve out a special distinction for beautiful things and high-status behaviour - if you force them to account for themselves on their own merits - then baser pleasures win. Specifically, they win in the short and long term but not the medium term. If you're looking to have as pleasurable a day as possible, do drugs. If you're looking to have as pleasurable a life as possible, contemplate sunsets and whatnot. If you're looking to have as pleasurable a universe as possible, tile it with computer chips simulating countless tiny minds experiencing nothing but euphoria.

OK, the last part probably isn't what Mill had in mind, but I do think baser pleasures tend to win in the long-term at a society-wide level (and are justified in doing so from a quantitative hedonistic standpoint).

You mention in a comment:

> But my understanding was that qualitative hedonists think that it's not about the activity--they'd bite the bullet on the experience machine, for example.

Because the entire philosophy is basically an excuse to avoid biting a bullet, I'd guess that in practice qualitative hedonists wouldn't bite very many bullets. Would they be OK with tiling the universes with a mind happily contemplating the exact same piece of music, over and over? Probably not.

Philosophically I'm not fond of this, but in practice given that I think the singularity may well happen in our lifetimes I am against biting bullets for the most part. There is plenty of room in the universe for everyone to win so let's make that happen rather than murder everyone in order to produce more happiness-chips.

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Mike Hind's avatar

No objections & the definition of pleasure is elegant.

As with many things, I think people who make a high/low distinction are unconsciously preachy and motivated by factors that aren't relevant. An example of this would be that they correctly intuit that 'lower' pleasures (eg eating especially tasty fat/sugar derivatives, lying around getting stoned, pursuing a lot of orgasms) can actually lead more easily to misery in the longer term.

I'm always wary of the moral judgements inherent in classifying something as better or worse in and of itself.

The reason that TikTok is a lower pleasure than Dostoevski isn't that the TikTok addict is getting a less valuable hedonistic experience.

This essay is also a good argument for more honest and clearer thinking about pleasure.

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