I estimate going to the protest is worth donating a few hundreds to dollars to the Shrimp Welfare Project (SWP). For 30 billion insects raised per year (you say "This single farm, Protix, raises tens of billions of farmed insects"), your assumption that "Protix’s continued operation will lead to an extra 300 billion farmed insects" implies each person increases by 0.01 pp the probability of 10 years of counterfactual impact. Maybe 3 years is more accurate considering the rest of the industry could increase their production to offset the loss of Protix. Even then, each person would save 3 M insects (= 30*10^6*3/10). I estimate SWP's Humane Slaughter Initiative (HSI) helps 15 k shrimps per $ (https://forum.effectivealtruism.org/posts/EbQysXxofbSqkbAiT/cost-effectiveness-of-shrimp-welfare-project-s-humane). Say saving 1 insect from Protix is as beneficial as HSI helping 1 shrimp, and that donations to SWP are roughly as cost-effective as HSI has been. In this case, going to the protest would be as beneficial as donating 200 $ (= 3*10^6/(15*10^3)) to SWP.
Given the above, going to the protest may still be worth it for people close by, but it is not obvious. For no financial cost, and a time cost of 20 $/h, it would have to take less than 10 h (= 200/20). On the other hand, there may be significant indirect benefits from going to the protest. In particular, connecting with people who care about neglected animals.
Non-conscious beings cannot have nightmares, neither literally nor metaphorically. Previously, you often said that your recommendations follow even if one takes P(insects are conscious) to be non-zero. A very low bar. But the language you use here only makes sense if you are confident that insects are conscious - so my question: Do you genuinely think that the current scientific consensus strongly supports the thesis that insects are conscious?
do you know if some farmable animal is non sentinet?, if people could get animal protein from an animal that doesnt feel pain or anything, wouldnt that allow to move on from sentient animals?maybe developing an animal without pain receptor with genetic engeneering
Welcome to the EU, where the more nightmares can be created, the better. Why? Nobody knows. It’s the creation of 10,000 minds pulling in different directions. But it certainly keeps the money flowing! Nice.
Hi Matthew. Nice post.
I estimate going to the protest is worth donating a few hundreds to dollars to the Shrimp Welfare Project (SWP). For 30 billion insects raised per year (you say "This single farm, Protix, raises tens of billions of farmed insects"), your assumption that "Protix’s continued operation will lead to an extra 300 billion farmed insects" implies each person increases by 0.01 pp the probability of 10 years of counterfactual impact. Maybe 3 years is more accurate considering the rest of the industry could increase their production to offset the loss of Protix. Even then, each person would save 3 M insects (= 30*10^6*3/10). I estimate SWP's Humane Slaughter Initiative (HSI) helps 15 k shrimps per $ (https://forum.effectivealtruism.org/posts/EbQysXxofbSqkbAiT/cost-effectiveness-of-shrimp-welfare-project-s-humane). Say saving 1 insect from Protix is as beneficial as HSI helping 1 shrimp, and that donations to SWP are roughly as cost-effective as HSI has been. In this case, going to the protest would be as beneficial as donating 200 $ (= 3*10^6/(15*10^3)) to SWP.
Given the above, going to the protest may still be worth it for people close by, but it is not obvious. For no financial cost, and a time cost of 20 $/h, it would have to take less than 10 h (= 200/20). On the other hand, there may be significant indirect benefits from going to the protest. In particular, connecting with people who care about neglected animals.
Also potential to deal broader blow to the industry.
good post
> The life of a farmed insect is a nightmare
Non-conscious beings cannot have nightmares, neither literally nor metaphorically. Previously, you often said that your recommendations follow even if one takes P(insects are conscious) to be non-zero. A very low bar. But the language you use here only makes sense if you are confident that insects are conscious - so my question: Do you genuinely think that the current scientific consensus strongly supports the thesis that insects are conscious?
I guess there I was conditioning on sentience which I think is a bit above 50%.
OK, then we have a massive disagreement on the science...
do you know if some farmable animal is non sentinet?, if people could get animal protein from an animal that doesnt feel pain or anything, wouldnt that allow to move on from sentient animals?maybe developing an animal without pain receptor with genetic engeneering
Welcome to the EU, where the more nightmares can be created, the better. Why? Nobody knows. It’s the creation of 10,000 minds pulling in different directions. But it certainly keeps the money flowing! Nice.