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Richard Y Chappell's avatar

I think the strongest counterargument to this is the value of "keeping options open" assuming that we will know more, and be better placed to make wiser decisions, in future.

If some adolescent Martian spent 5 minutes surveying the Earth, decided that humanity looked rather miserable on the whole, and so decided to permanently wipe us out for our own good, I would not be thrilled about that. Irreversible decisions require stronger evidential support. So my steelman of the biodiversity-loving environmentalists is that they've internalized a heuristic which says "Don't be like that adolescent Martian!"

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Mikkel Paulson's avatar

The utilitarian bites the bullet and takes a morally repugnant conclusion lol. Tale as old as time. As an anthropocentric environmentalist, I’m sympathetic to some of the specific arguments. I’m ok with killing the bugs to save a human life. (Maybe you can make nice with Lyman Stone over this!) I think most laymen are unaware with how much we humans already are responsible for managing “natural” areas and how more management would be needed for a more ecological society. But I’m also an ecologist by training and so need to poke some holes in your overall thesis.

1. First you criticize environmentalists who seem to value ecosystems on the basis of how pretty of a David Attenborough doc it would make. In fact, this seems more rational then you may think. Ecosystems bring humans a lot of happiness, improved mental health outcomes, ect. I think you at least need to try and account for the relation of that to the pain of insects or whatever.

2. Ok, but your argument isn’t against ecosystems per se, its against biodiversity. I’d point you to the research of my former teacher David Tilman. His research (which I also worked on and can attest to their validity) shows that more biodiverse ecosystems are more stable. That’s because species specialize in evolution to fill specific niches.

3. I also don’t know what you’d do about trophic levels. If you kill all the miserable insects, the frogs die without food. Ok, maybe you still don’t care but then the snakes die and so on until you reach the large predators that could conceivably do have lives of pleasure. How can you possibly solve this problem? The lion is not ready to lay next to the lamb.

4. At this point, you might be ready to bite the bullet and say that all ecosystems should be destroyed. In this case we both return to point 1, and also need to see that ecosystem services are basically the only way we can have a functioning society for reasons that are surely evident to any person with a passing interest in environmental issues.

5. Finally, Chesterton’s Fence! Even if I’m sympathetic to the idea that ecosystems can be managed by humans, that still doesn’t mean we should disregard how ecosystems naturally function! Sometimes you never know how much a single change can ripple out and mess with an ecosystem. See the famous wolves in Yellowstone example. Did killing the wolves save some sheep from suffering? Yeah, sure. But then the elk population gets out of control, eats all the vegetation, and suddenly every species is experiencing excess suffering from starvation.

BONUS) We have such a small understanding of millions of plant and animals species in the world. Historically, many of our medicinal advancements come from gaining understanding of more species. In other words, when you wipe out an endangered toad in Cuba, who’s to say you didn’t just kill the source of the discovery of a chemical that cured luekemia?

Despite my disagreement, thanks for highlighting a topic that desperately needs more in-depth ethical analysis from the public.

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